date

5Jan y 1807 Scotch Reform To L d Grenville
5Jan y 1807

Scotch Reform To L d Grenville

Facienda

Juries why on appeal only

In a word /truth/, the cases /case/ and the only cases in which a /the/ Jury is capable of being employed to advantage /intervention of a Jury is desirable not to say possible/ are those in which the evidence, the whole of the evidence which the case furnishes, being as well at the command, as within the knowledge of both parties is ready on both sides on the same day, being the first day that any thing is done in the cause: always understood that there be not more of it than can be heard through and undergo sufficient consideration in the compass of a single sitting. In a word the only causes fit for the cognizance of a Jury are those causes which without a Jury be concluded the same day as begun, concluded in the morning without need of being put upon the list of adjourned or appointed causes.

To causes of this description it certainly would not be impossible to have a box /Jury-box/ of competent dimensions[?] with a Jury to fill it so long as the Judge were on the bench. Here is possibility; but where is the use? Whether a cause be or be not ripe for decision on the first day is a fact which can seldom be known beforehand (for how should either party know this exactly what the others evidence may be?) or at least will very often not be to be known beforehand. Here then is a cause brought as before a Jury under the uncertainty whether their hearing it can be of any use: if indeed the whole of the evidence be forthcoming on both sides, and not too abundant /copious/ they hear it and give their verdict: but if either there be too much of it, or a part be wanting (a /an absent/ witness for example too distant to be fetched in time, or a witness capable of being fetched to contradict the unexpected assertions of a present witness) in either case no verdict or at least no fit /just/ verdict can be given.
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  • Title: [5 Jan y 1807 Scotch Reform To L d]
    Description: 5 Jan y 1807

    Scotch Reform To L d Grenville

    Facienda

    Juries why on appeal only

    Is it the case of a redundancy of evidence? for the same reason that no verdict /a verdict/ can /not/ be given on that day, neither can it on any other. Is it the case of a mere deficiency? Here then the cause may be tried by a second Jury, but the labour of the first is thrown away.

    But not only in these incompressible causes which could not be concluded on /at/ the first day /hearing/ could the labours of these 12 men (or whatever else were the number) be thrown away, but so it would in all those causes in which there is really no dispute. But of these, as I have already had occasion to submitt the vast majority of causes is composed. In all these cases Jurymen are either nuisances or puppets. Puppets Jurymen are of use to lawyers: but neither puppets or nuisances are of use to justice.

    Under our over English system, certainly in a very considerable number of the causes that come on before Juries - I should expect to find the greater number - pictures or statues of Jurymen could be very advantageous substitutes to the originals. In one part of the number of these causes, there is nothing for any body to try: in another part, the Juries being there for show but not for use, the cause turning upon jargon, the lawyers settle it among themselves, leaving to the Jury nothing to do but to stare.

    (My Lord, though I have n't them for my motto[?], neither am I without my love for Juries. Were it to depend upon me I too would have Juries: but when I had them it should always in every case for use, in no case for mere show.)
  • Title: [5 Jan y 1807 Scotch Reform To L d]
    Description: 5 Jan y 1807

    Scotch Reform To L d Grenville

    Facienda

    Juries why on appeal only

    But another cause of unfitness on the part of the Jury system is still /yet/ behind. A Jury, if once it be let out of the Conclave /close chamber/, and suffered to mix with the elements of corruption with which the open air /surrounding /medicine[?]/ ever is impregnated loses all its virtue: it ceases to be a Jury. Whatever is done by a Jury must therefore be done in a single sitting. But unless by mere accident, the power of investigation above mentioned that power so necessary to the discovery of truth, and to the dispensation of real /official/ justice, can not be compleatly exorcised within so short a compass. A. who has not lied[?] in them[?] the first day /in Court today/: but B. who has it, and who but through A. would not have been known of, can not be had /if at/ till the day after tomorrow. To day the Jury could have given their verdict had all the evidence been before them: but one indisputable part is yet wanting. Giving them their verdict to day they are sure to give a wrong one: discharged to day with an order to appear again the day after tomorrow, they cease to be a Jury at least to possess that inaccessibility on which depends the confidence at least what is meant by that term in English law.

    reposed no[?] Juries
  • Title: [9 Feb y 1807 Omitt 30 1 Letter]
    Description: 9 Feb y 1807

    Omitt 30 1

    Letter IV

    Resolut. 6.7.8.9.

    Juries

    After 2. Expence

    J.B. Juries not puppets

    Any Juryman, when they do enter the Jury box, come there for use, not for mere show /Endowed with human reason, they are designed to exercise it/: they are neither painted men /figure/ on a flat board to make a figure with, nor puppets, waiting for learned hands to pull the wires.

    In English practice, among the causes which are set down as to be tried, and as actually tried by Juries, what (might it not be neither of curiosity at least to know, my Lord?) is the proportional [...?], of these to check the mind of no one individual in the Jury box is so much no permitted to apply itself? like the antecedent procedure, the decision is let fall /chops itself down/, upon some[?] mechanical principle, with some customary lie /a lawyer's lie/ under the name of fiction, for a [...?] mobile: a Jurer is withdrawn, so the plaintiff is called, or the verdict a verdict which nobody has given is taken /taking/ upon this or that one of half a dozen or more counts, one of perhaps a lie of the plaintiff's, all of them to a certainty lawyer's lies but that one. The Jury men slur[?] /Jury box slurs[?]/, wondering then[?] should be so much hearing in the world, proud to think how more fate is [...?] by them without the trouble of a sure assured thought, satisfied that every thing must be right, because they know nothing about the matter. The student swells with conscious pride, waiting for the day when he too is to have a hand in the conduct of so exquisite a piece of misdecision: wondering how society can be kept together, in countires where it is unknown /where hard lot has benefit then of so unspeakable a benefit/: believing that Justice is seated upon lies, believing and with as firm a faith as ever Platonist believed with, [...?] the world is founded upon numbers.