date

19 Feb y 1808 on L d Eldon's Bill
19 Feb y 1808

on L d Eldon's Bill

Letter VII

v. Reasons proper here

'.5. Propriety of requiring Reasons in the present case

In the case of the proposed Commissioners, whose proposed authority will come afterwards to be considered even in this case then, if in the observations /reasons/ just given there be any truths[?] /propriety/ reasons in support of whatever regulations they come to report, ought to be required. That in its existing state the Scottish system of procedure is compleately ill adapted to the fulfilment of the several ends of justice - in that may be seen a proposition which has no need of proof: but that the system proposed instead of it /whatever it be that[?] may come to be/ - that in its several parts such new proposed system is well adapted to those ends - better than any other if any other there be that comes /stands/ in competition with it - then /in this/ it is that we say remaining the demand for reasons.

But whatsoever in the instance of these non-judicial functionaries, whosoever they may be, is the demand for reasons, that demand will be found not to have lost any of its strength, but to have acquired an additional strength when applied to the dignitaries in question - the members of that supreme natural judicatory /Court Of Justice/.

Practice of this body of men in respect of sinister interest - conduct of the same body throughout the whole period of its existence - declarations /avowals/ recently made by a great majority /more than a quorum/ of the present members - all these presumptions applying in general /operating in the lump/ in disfavour of whatsoever regulations may come to be proposed from a quarter /be seen to issue from such a source/ so situated /circumstanced. Your Bill has it the approbation of the gentleman of the long robe? has it the sanction of the learned Judges? Such is the question one hears as often as a [...?] aiming at the correction of any of the abuses in which these learned and venerable persons falter[?] is proposed, your plan of national defence has it the approbation of Bonaparte? would he behold in there[?] that a question no less reasonable.
Similar Items
  • Title: [29 Feb y 1808 on L d Eldon's Bill]
    Description: 29 Feb y 1808

    on L d Eldon's Bill

    Letter VII

    1. Reasons necessary

    So far as concerns the stage previous /antecedent/ to the introduction of the Bill into the theatre /seat/ of legislation the ideas above hazarded have not been fortunate enough to find the sanction they would have been glad to find in the practice either of Your Lordships learned Advisor or in that of the draughtsman employed by the learned and noble Lord.

    So far as concerns the incorporation /insertion/ of this sort of reasoning with /into/ the body of the proposed law, in its ultimate and binding state, they have in the latter instance to a certain degree been more fortunate.

    In one section, (the 18 th) reasons, such as they are /considerations to which/ that name can not consistently with the rules of decorum be referred announced as they are in that character by the introductory adverb whereas, are not altogether wanting:- reasons of the most unexceptionable cast, consisting in /composed of/ expediency than which a better sort of material to make a reason of is doubtless not to be found, if the existence of the expediency, instead of being asserted, and thus asserted, were but rendered probable or put into a way /course/ of being an enquiry found to be so.

    "And whereas it would be expedient that proper regulations should be established relative to extracts[?] of decrees" and so forth - then after /with the intervention/ other matters come[?] the clauses giving authority for the proposed of these " proper regulations" -

    "And whereas it would be expedient that regulations should be established relative to the causes or processes" &c - then, in due course comes a clause giving authority for the establishment of these regulations, on the propriety of which it has not been deemed necessary to insist.

    "And whereas it is expedient that due and proper information" ( propriety now again becomes necessary with dueness into the bargain) "touching such matters as aforesaid, to the intent that the most salutary regulations should be made and established by due authority" then again in due person came the clauses, whereby authority is given for collecting such due and proper information [...?] the hands enquired /to/ whom the enquiry happens to be directed may happen to be polite enough to supply.
  • Title: [29 Oct r 1807 L d Eldon's Bill]
    Description: 29 Oct r 1807

    L d Eldon's Bill

    '.18

    Enacting that /concerning/ the same enquiries that they shall /it shall be their duty "to/ "state what regulations appear to them proper to be adopted relative to Processes or Causes (neither with " Actions, matters, or complaints, relating to subjects, matters or things" as per '.9 need they on this occasion give themselves any trouble, but only with "processes or causes") "to be brought into the Court of Session by Advocation or suspension, or in the first instance, or before the Circuit Court", for what reason is it that he does so? even for this reason, because "it would also be expedient that regulations should be established relative to" that subject: and here note the diversity between the two subjects, viz. this latter this one and the former one last above mentioned: on that former subject it was expedient that the regulations should be proper: but to this latter subject the same demand dare not extend; wherefore on this latter occasion the requisition of propriety, as being for this particular occasion too rigourous is with great propriety, in the exercise of that sound discretion which never leaves this most learned person, omitted.

    Lastly being about to enact that "full enquiries" touching those matters ("after choosing a Prices[?] and Clerk" - snug comfortable little places these -) shall be made, for what reason is it that he does so? - even for this reason - because "it is expedient" (" whereas" (says he) assuming it, on well he may; and without fear of contradiction) whereas it is expedient that "due and proper information" (the information would not answer the purpose unless it were proper, nor even then unless it were due) "due and proper information should be obtained touching such matters as aforesaid" - and for what reason? behold now and crown the (pyramid) reason upon reason - "to the intent that the most salutary regulations should be made and established by due authority."
  • Title: [25 Oct r 1807 L d Eldon's Bill]
    Description: 25 Oct r 1807

    L d Eldon's Bill

    But suppose that in regard /on the subject/ to this or that particular portion of the practice of the Court doubts of /as to/ its legality have ben entertained, are these doubts never to receive a solution? - Oh yes: and the sooner the better. But as often as this is the case, and Statute law is called in to remove the doubts, say that there have been doubts /state the existence of such doubts/: by this means, and no otherwise /on these terms, and on these terms only/ where this or that part of the fabric appears to be in want of a steadiment, the steadiment may be applied to it without endangering the stability of the whole.

    Accordingly in the last clause /section/ of this Bill in /of/ which last clause the business amongst other things is the establishment of a Commission for the initiation of new regulations in the /a/ preambular part of it the Lord President has /had/ (with perfect propriety) inserted a recital that "it has been doubted whether the said Court (the Court of Session) by virtue of its general powers, can make all the necessary regulations." And this last section being taken by the Lord Chancellors learned penman as the basis of his own last section directed to the same object, this recital is employed in it, and with no other alteration than an immaterial one or two, the fruit of the habitual /result of the constitutional/ recklessness, and the ambition of shewing the constancy with which /how constantly //how constant a companion/ with which superiority of station is /has [...?]/ accompanied with superiority of intelligence: instead of " its general powers", " its present general powers", and instead of "can make all the necessary regulations" "can make the necessary regulations."