date

14 Jan y 1817 Necessity Cat
14 Jan y 1817

Necessity Cat

1 Theory

§.4. Probity how securable

6

Q. And is it then your belief /persuasion/ that on every occasion the conduct of every man will be determined by the stronger interest: for example that on every occasion on which by sacrificing one pound he would gain two he will accordingly make the sacrifice.

A. No: nor do you really mean to ascribe to any such notion: it is only for the sake of bringing out a little necessary explanation that you start it you put the question to me. If this were really the case, no such thing /quality/ as imprudence would there be in the world: of every man on every occasion his conduct would be conformable to the dictates of the most consummate prudence. On this kind what I mean to say is this: viz. /1 in the first place/ that on each occasion man’s conduct will be determined by that which in his own view of the matter at the moment is the stronger body of interest: the interest /aggregate/ corresponding to the aggregate stock /mass/ of the whole stock of his happiness expected to be enjoyed by him during life: and in the next place, that on the occasion of a /any/ judgment to be passed concerning what in the situation in question a man will do, his own conception in regard to which is the stronger interest ought to be taken for correct.

Q. What? to be conformable to the dictates of consummate prudence? and this notwithstanding the lamentable stock of imprudences the existence of which is so generally recognized and in truth so incontestable?

A. O yes: so it must be: individuals being known and considering that for the formation of our judgments on a subject of this kind the nature of the case affords us no ground whatever, other than what is composed of the known constitution of man’s nature in whatsoever situation placed, added to the particular nature of the particular situation in question, such is the supposition on which we are reduced to act.
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  • Title: [13 Jan y 1817 Necessity Cat]
    Description: 13 Jan y 1817

    Necessity Cat

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    §.4. Probity how securable

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     Added in this sheet? 1. Relation of interest to happiness. 2. Universality of the sacrifice of public to private interest - East India directors &c

    Q. 5. You mean that in case of conflict between interest and interest, a man’s conduct, in the situation in question more particularly will be determined by the stronger interest: and that very frequently in the situation in question the personal and sinister interest will to the stronger interest: that by producing a diminution in the general /universal/ happiness it will be in his power to gain to himself more happiness or at any rate more of the ordinary means and instruments of happiness than by giving encrease to the general /universal/ happiness: and even by means by which a diminution will be effected in /of/ the stock of general happiness will be produced.

    A. Yes: this is what I mean: viz. that for any such prospect as that of an /a distribution or/ allotment to be made of the powers of government individuals being unknown, the only supposition that can normally be acted upon is - that of those by whom these powers are possessed and exercised the conduct will on each occasion be determined by the stronger interest: i.e. if as is commonly the case there be a multitude of interests operating /acting/ on each of the two opposite sides, by the stronger body of interest.
  • Title: [4 Jan 1817 + 1 Necessity Cat]
    Description: 4 Jan 1817 + 1

    Necessity Cat

    1 o

    1. Theory

    1. Probity

    *4

    5

    Q. 9. The probity of a man having /bearing/ a part of the government depends you were saying upon the degree of coincidence between his personal interest and his share in the universal interest or what comes to the same thing the /that/ universal interest itself. Is this true in strictness? Does not this suppose that on every occasion the line a man’s conduct will be in exact coincidence with the line pointed out by his own personal interest? and such a supposition does it not moreover involve in it the supposition of universal and consummate[?] prudence[?]?

    A. Yes /Doubtless/: and therefore it was only for shortness and as it were for breathing time that the description of the interest in question /object in question/ was so worded. To be perfectly correct the expression should have been a man’s conception of /in relation to/ his own personal interest.

    Q. 10 A man’s conception of his own personal /general/ interest is then the proper description of the sort of power or force which on every occasion every man’s conduct is determined by.

    A. Yes

    Q. 11. The robber, the ravisher, the murderer is it then by the conception entertained by each that on the occasion of the crimes designed[?] by these respective names /such his denominations[?]/ he is governed by? Can it then really /Is it then possible/ in the nature of man to conceive that it can really be his interest to committ any one of these crimes, and in particular under circumstances which leave /render/ impunity hopeless?
  • Title: [[Marginal summary sheet[?]] [Mainly]
    Description: [Marginal summary sheet[?]]

    [Mainly in copyist’s hand]

    14 Jan y 1817

    Necessity Cat

    1 Theory

    § 4. Probity how securable

    1

    1

    § 4. Probity how securable?

    Q 1 - Recapitulation - < > question - By what arrangements < > of the form of government can appropriate probity on the part of the supreme rulers be most effectually secured -

    A. Short answer: such by means of which each such ruler shall find it his interest to entertain the destrosetion[?] in question, and constantly to act up to it -

    2

    Q 2: i e. that in the current phrases it shou’d be his interest should in each coincide with his duty -

    A - Yes -

    3

    Q.3. But under every form of government are the instances of every possessor of supreme power does not interest coincide with duty? - i.e the line of conduct presented by interest coincide with d o. prescribed by duty? Exists there that office bearer who possesses not a share in the universal interest? as great a share as any other can possess? -

    A. No. But in addition to that fractional interest every member of the community rulers included has an integral interest, viz. a purely personal interest which being distinct from his share in the universal interest is liable to be opposite to it

    A - Yes -

    §. 4 Probity how securable

    4

    Q 4 - This 1 undurable it therefore is that he should never deviate, will any such sinister cource. But then he will not deviate, unless and in so far as his such his private compared with public interest is the strongest: will he? -

    A. No - but mostly so it will be. The seperate interest is an integer: his share in the universal interest is but a < > fraction, as one to a number of millions. This sinister interest of his acts in the most < > his public in a highly diluted state

    {5}

    Ans. In this respect, with no other difference than what depends on the number of the portions, this public is on the footing of a private partnership. Bating the tutelary force of the interest < > political or legal, the /by the/ popular or moral, and the religious sanctions, if by a conduct by which the value of his share as the partnership would be diminished one hundred pound a partner can gain two hundred so he will do -

    5

    Q 5 - You mean that conduct will be determined by the stronger interest viz - when thereby general happiness will not only not be encreased but diminished.

    A. Yes - that in the < > of the powers of government < > to be the supposition acted upon say, as there may be so each had several interests by the stronger body of interest -

    7

    Q 7 - Teach you then that for example on every occasion in which by sacrificing one pound, a man may gain two he will make the sacrifice?

    A - Not exactly so: only for the sale if the explanation said so: if these were really so, no imprudence; nothing but consummate prudence.

    What I meant was -

    I. On each occasion man’s conduct is determined by what in his own conception of the matter is at the < > most conducive to the aggregate interest corresponding to the < > quantity of happiness expected to be enjoyed by him during life:

    2. that for the purpose in question that conception ought to be taken for correct

    8

    Q. 8. What always notwithstanding the known abundances of of imprudences? -

    A. Yes - individuals persons not known nothing known but the general comprehension of names nature[?], and the particular situation of the sort it man in question, such the supposition on what we are induced to act This ground is not a fallacious as it may be seen. Per Adam < >. Bankruptcies are comparatively rare: and of Bankruptcies only a part are produced either by improbity or imprudence. - By the very notice taken of imprudences their rarity is evidenced: only by what is rare is nature attracted.