date

21 Dec r 1809 Parl y Reform
21 Dec r 1809

Parl y Reform

'.3

Ch.10 Seat bought

'.3 Mischief to Seller's mind

*4

3

{'.3. Mischief to the mind of the individual corrupted /seller of the seat/}

{ This not first in the section

But he thinks he is doing wrong: and thinking it, he does do wrong: if against nothing else, he sins against his own conscience: he stands self-convicted of universal [...?]

No: he does not think any such thing: why should he?

Is any specific mischief likely to be the result of what he does? Looking out for any such mischief, he finds none. /In none would he put himself upon the [...?] [...?]/}

Is it that in a transaction of this sort there is any thing that by public opinion is condemned as wrong? /reprobated?/ is it so thought of by the highest authority? by great characters in high situations? by those who in respect of height of situation at least, are the most competent judges?

No - that it is not: of that he has the best evidence viz. their own conduct if in this instance conduct is to be received as interpreter of thought.

If in this practice there were any thing that in their opinion were wrong, it rests with them to put a stop to it /to render it impossible/ altogether. Nothing could be easier to them than to render it impossible. If while the duration of the seat were so short as not to be worth paying for votes were given in such manner, viz by ballot, that supposing a man to have received a bribe /the money/ it could not be known whether he had earnt it, under either of these circumstances much more than under both, votes never would be bought. /If the number of the voters were in each electoral district too great for the greatest quantity of the matter of corruption that could be bought./ To whom is there that this can be a secret?

Reason or authority: by one or other of these two guides every understanding so far as conduct depends upon cool understanding is on every occasion determined. Ask /Refer the matter to/ Reason there is no harm in the practice: refer it to authority, there is still no harm in it. For to what higher authority can a question be referred, than to that of King, Lords and Commons.
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  • Title: [24[?] Jan y 1810 Parl y Reform]
    Description: 24[?] Jan y 1810

    Parl y Reform

    Ch.10 Seat bought

    '.3 Seller's mind

    2

    But to the present purpose of the present question " limit or continuation" as applied to mind - viz. to the mind of the seller of the seat, which in the present section is the subject of inquiry, or to that of the buyer of the seat which in the last section was the subject of inquiry, all these are distinctions without difference. So long as the system exists, no mischief other than that of the system itself results in any individual inclusion from the acting[?] under it. Approving the system, or what comes to the same thing, disapproving the /all/ idea of reforming /a reform in/ it no man can in his own mind believe that he does wrong in acting under it. As little can /could/ he although ever so disapproving the system, his wishes /desire/ to see it reformed were ever so strenuous and sincere. For supposing it to be reformed, how is it to be reformed but by the aid of hands already in the House? and how are any hands to find their way into the House but by such ways as give admission to it?

    The buyer it has been shewn above does no wrong, thinks no wrong, in buying the seat: the seller, doing no wrong, how is it that he can think himself to be doing wrong, in selling it.
  • Title: [8 Jan y 1810 Parl y Reform]
    Description: 8 Jan y 1810

    Parl y Reform

    + '.3.

    Ch.17.

    '.3. Mischievousness. Electors

    18

    1

    '.3. Seat of mischievousness in the case of the Parliamentary Electors.

    For the reason mentioned at the outset, + the delinquency /station of the misconduct/ of the Elector can not in any of its modifications be placed /stationed/ in the scale of mischievousness otherwise than below the lowest of those modifications of delinquency of which the conduct of a man whose station is in parliament itself is susceptible.

    {By /To/ corruption on the part of an elector, in any contested election, unless he be one /on the side/ of the majority, no ultimate not mischief in any shape is /can be/ produced, if he be on the side of the majority no actual mischief is produced by it, unless in so far as the conduct of the Member to whose election he has by such vote contributed is preponderantly mischievous /productive of more mischief than good/: and in this case the mischief produced by the electoral vote is but a fraction of the neat ballance on the side of mischief produced by all the votes that at the end of that parliament have been given /pronounced/ by that same Member: a fraction having for its denominator the number of votes by the concurrence of which the election of that Member was produced.

    or unless the influence of example be set down to the account of mischief

    + Suprà Ch.7.'.3

    [Marginal note:] For reasons given in Ch.7. '.3. most mischievous misconduct in Elector is less so than least d o in Member

    { Insert this proof there?}
  • Title: [7 Jan y 1810 Parl y Reform]
    Description: 7 Jan y 1810

    Parl y Reform

    Ch. 10. III. Seat Traffic

    '.1

    4

    4

    2 Another ill-grounded observation is - that as there is a somewhat which he has bought, so there is a somewhat which he is ready to sell - to sell and that for as much as he can contrive to get for it.

    What this somewhat is that on this occasion he is to be understood as having bought does not seem to be very distinctly /determinately/ settled. What he has really bought is the seat: i.e. the right of sitting in the House with the same privileges as those possessed by other members during that parliament. But the which is the plain truth not answering /coming up/ to the purpose, some other supposed subject of purchase is lent instead of it: his constituents for example, or the whole country or empire, according to the occasion or /and/ the purpose. If in /as composing/ the character of the immediate objects of sale his votes, with or without speeches, are in view, the interests of his fellow subjects are in a plain sense, his fellow subjects themselves in a figurative sense, meant to be designated /indicated/ as the ultimate objects.

    As to why he is to make the most of it? - the answer is - Oh, because this is a " traffic", and so he is a trader: and it is the way of a trader when in the way of his trade he buys any thing, it is with the intention of selling it for as much as he can get for it.

    But with the same reason every man who has a coat on his back and pays for it may be said to be a trader. He buys his /the/ coat: and if a man's buying the seat - the parliamentary seat he sits in be evidence of his intending to sell either that or any thing else by means of it, then a man's buying a coat is evidence of his intending to sell coats or at least that coat.