1
results found in
43 ms
Page 1
of 1
1819 July 3 + B
To Erskine or Defence of Univ. ag st Ed. Review
Lett. 7. Whigs AntiReformists
§ 2 Pos 1. Desire impossible
{Univ.}
1
Along with these offers, conditional /unobligatory/ as they were, of a sort of property which being in quiet possession was {of} {matchless in value} /worth much – it is difficult to say how much/ came others, and in no inconsiderable number of ostensible property of the same kind, net value from little to nothing and considerably less: seats, which after money laid out upon them to an indefinite amount would be either kept or lost, purchased or left unpurchased, hit on or mist on, as the case might be.
Shifting the scene to England, I /any one /eye/ may/ view in Ireland as in a mirror, the state of interests and thence of minds, among the parliamentary advocates for parliamentary reform, from the dawn of it in 1780 down to the present day. {A few feeling themselves firm in their seats, yet /but/} Some who {tottering in their seats}feeling those seats dropping from under them looked to the favour of the people in the case of a change produced by their exertions looked the favour of the people as affording a more advantageous prospect /better chance/ than the scene[?] before them in the then existing state of things: others also, though in /feeling firm in/ quiet possession of their seats, were /stood/ assured, that by nothing that could be done /they could d/ towards bringing into effect a /any/ system by which these seats would be sacrificed /made to pass into other hands/ be swept /made to drop/ from under them: and accordingly pushed on in the road to reform with an ardour, proportioned to the fulness of their assurance, that the goal before them /mark they were running to/ was in no danger of being reached: loss of seats the ostensible object, gain of office the real object, of all their labours.
Similar Items
-
Title: [1819 Mar. 27 To Erskine 1 o]Description: 1819 Mar. 27 To Erskine 1 o Lett. IX Whigs self-condemned antireformists Detected felons less bad than Whigs 1 § | | Whigs worse as to sincerity than detected felons. In p 33 of this Your Lordship’s Defence being the third of the Postscript I observe an allusion made to the case of “detected felons, and a sort of parallel drawn between his case and that of a Parliamentary defender of the system of rotten boroughs. If the parallel is meant to apply to the defence of that part of the system of corruption as compared to that which has place in the case of the County Seats, I can not for my own part admitt the accuracy of the parallel having shewn to my own conviction at least that in comparison of the state of County seats that of rotten borough seats is an improvement. But whether the County seats or the rotten borough seats or any other of the seats or all the seats be the intended object of the parallel, I in the character of an impartial person not standing in either predicament, but in respect of my regard for justice, feeling for the character of detected felon, would on his behalf beg that he may not be so far degraded as to be confounded with such associates. His case stands distinguished from theirs by some material circumstances To teach /lead[?] in the notion of teaching/ him better manners /morals/ no such exalted education has he had the benefit of: no such indefatigable insincerity, no such inbred and confirmed hypocrisy is his conduct shamed[?] by: no such impunity can he promise himself: of no such sure impunity can he afford himself any promise.
-
Title: [1819 July 3 To Erskine or Defence]Description: 1819 July 3 To Erskine or Defence of Univ. ag st Ed. Review Lett. 7. Whigs AntiReformists § 2 Pos 1. Desire impossible Universality undangerous to Ireland 2 Among the well-assured patrons and proprietors of seats was the Earl of Charlemont: of one of his two seats, namely /being/ those for the borough of Charlemont, the occupier, and that an habitual one, was M r Grattan. The Convention the universal suffrage-men in the character of Volunteers, and Delegates of Volunteer bodies sitting in National Convention, being no more, M r Grattan took the earliest opportunity of pouring forth upon universal suffrage the full-charged zeal of his wrath. He assumed as certain all those mischiefs /evils/ all apprehension of which had been proved to be so compleatly groundless by the five years experience which had just been passing under his eye. His speech, is as curious a specimen of hypothesis against reality, argument against fact, as can any where be to be found It may be seen printed in the Irish Parliamentary debates Vol. 13 and from thence reprinted in Volume the third of M r Plowdens History of Ireland, {is as curious a specimen of argument against fact, as ever perhaps was exhibited.} It exhibits as certain in Ireland a state of things such as never was exhibited /had place/ any where. Amongst them /the mischiefs/ is the utter destruction of all property, which is in other words /that is to say/ a universal system of suicide: which being carried into effect, then comes a system of tyranny, under which the quondam rulers are to be kept in a state of torment by the quondam subjects. What called forth this exhibition /string of hyperbolic epigrams/ was a Bill {presented to the Irish Parliament in March 1784 by M r Brabazon Ponsonby} having for its apparent object the redeeming of all such pledges as might have been given during the reign of the Convention by the parliamentary men that took a part in it.
-
Title: [1819 June 20 To Erskine ult]Description: 1819 June 20 To Erskine ult o Lett. 7. Whigs Anti Reformists §. 2. Pos. I. Desire impossible Number of self-sacrifices? 3 Now then for our calculation. And /:and/ the question /concerning sincerity/ being in the first place that concerning the sincerity of the Whigs of 1780 and 1794 respectively we will take for the number of the seats the number that had place in those times, namely 558 Among those take then in the first place, as the number of those seats, in the instance of which in the eyes of patrons and sitting members together in whose eyes, under a radical change /the change in question/, {the seats being filled by} the people voting freely and therefore secretly, their seats would be as well assured to them after the reform as before it – say though the allowance seems rather a large one ---- 108 Of the 450 seats remaining suppose that of the whole number of those on whom the sacrifice would depend, whether in the situation of patron or in the situation of members one ninth – a large allowance indeed – would be willing to make the sacrifice – here then we have to add 50 Here then for the carrying through of parliamentary reform we shall have as and for the number of men /members/ capable of being looked to ............. 158 But against 400, by 158 for reform or any thing else, what is there at that time that could appear capable of being done? Give me but some determinate grounds, such as will bear examination, I will at any time be ready to change these conjectural and floating numbers into fixt ones. Your Lordship will moreover have the goodness to remark, that by my anxiety to meet Your Lordship’s ideas to as great an extent as possible, I have been led for the purpose to admitt a theory which I shall by and by find myself under the unhappy necessity of disputing, namely Your Lordship’s theory of Whig excellence. It is accordingly from the Whig side of the House and that alone that I take our 50 righteous men, persisting after years of deliberation, in the constant /determinate/ disposition to make the requisite self-sacrifice. I think Your Lordship will not insist upon my taking so much as a single one of these self-sacrificers from the side of the Tories /Tory side/.
1
results found.
Page 1
of 1