date

1820 Oct. 9 3 Spanish liberticide measures
1820 Oct. 9 3 Spanish liberticide measures 1 Not employed Letter 3. Public

Discussion 1. Meeting licensing 1. Colony Minister

3. The Minister of the Colonies would not admitt’ (it is said) ‘the existence of

political assemblies without dependence on the government, and without

responsibility of their members.’ Would not admitt? Who could ever have asked

him to admitt any such thing? Why thus, in the character of a reason, advance a

fact notoriously and necessarily false? By making known or endeavouring to make

known whether in private or in public, his opinions relative to the conduct of

the members of the government, does any man make himself or so much as seek to

make himself or any one else independent of the government? Does he exempt or

seek to exempt himself from responsibility for this or for any other of his

acts? How is this? What am I to think of this gentleman? that in his mind there

exists no difference between liberty and power: between liberty to a man to do

or not do so and so himself, and power to take this liberty from others? But a

man who is or affects to be ignorant of the difference, and under the notion or

pretence of stripping men of a power or for stripping them or for stripping all

the men in the nation of a most indispensable liberty – how dangerous must not

such a man be in and to any government of which he is a member?

{If this be not his own speech, this at any rate is the opinion that by

insinuation as usual he endeavours to impress his colleagues and fellow country

men with. I mean in his 4th article. Nevertheless these societies, authorized by

the competent authority will not be regarded as corporations? Regarded as

corporations indeed. What? the liberty of declaring his opinion of the conduct

of the government does he the possessor of this liberty constitute a man: if

instead of one man there be two that do this does there being two constitute

them a corporation? if instead of two we say two hundred or two thousand, are we

any thing the nearer to the constituting of a corporation.

At this moment, a friend who sits opposite to me is joining with me in melancholy

reflections on this speech of Mr Gorelli. By doing so My friend is he a

corporation? I am I a corporation? Both of us together are we are corporation:

we are quite as truly a corporation as any of those men, out of whom by calling

them a corporation Mr Gorelli has made /[…?]/ a pretence for ruining them, and

destroying the Constitution which he pretends to serve.}
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  • Title: [1820 Oct. 19 Spanish liberticide measures]
    Description: 1820 Oct. 19 Spanish liberticide measures 2 1. Gorelli

    At the moment with the law and the speech of Mr Gorelli before us a friend and I

    are speaking our opinions of it, my friend who is somewhat younger than myself

    every now and then boiling with indignation and both of us sighing over the

    condition of the people betrayed in Spain doomed to be replunged into despotism

    by such representatives[?]. Are we a corporation? In my own instance I do not

    perceive it.

    ‘What comparison is there’ the honourable Gentleman asks) ‘between individual

    liberty and that which may be arrogated to themselves by permanent juntas, with

    peculiar constitutions, secret sittings, dignities, offices and funds?’ That

    which may be arrogated! Alas! What confusion do I see? Can it have been

    otherwise than studied? Still the same insinuation fallacy still the same

    insinuation still the calumnious endeavour false assertion that by saying what

    his own opinion /the mere taking the liberty of making known his own opinion/ a

    man exercises power over others. Permanent juntas. This is already answered.

    Peculiar Constitutions this is already answered secret sittings this is already

    answered: dignities offices and funds by half a dozen words more this too is

    answered. All these have the Free Masons? and from /by their having them what is

    the power exercised on them by any body. The King of England is a free mason

    several of those his brothers are Free Masons. If he had no power over the

    people of England than by being a Free Mason he has over those who are not so,

    he would have no more power over England than happily for England Mr Goreli has.

    A Spanish Cortes is it possible that by sophistry such as this they should have

    been dupes? Yet Dupes or accomplices such is their only choice? O Spain Spain

    where are thy hopes!
  • Title: [1820 Oct. 10 Spanish liberticide measures]
    Description: 1820 Oct. 10 Spanish liberticide measures Conclusion 1. Gorelli. or

    Conclusion Gorelli & Torreno

    ‘I know’ (says Mr Gorelli /he/) that these associations owe their origin to a

    laudable abject and that to them though illegal we owe the acquisition of the

    good we enjoy. But the means that have been employed to acquire far from being

    conducive to its preservation would be the great obstacle to its consolidation.’

    Thus says Mr Goreli and thereupon it is that he treats as criminals those who

    have made him what he is. Thus it is that he treats them and for the very thing

    for which he had worshipped them. Thus it is that after having mounted the

    ladder, he kicks it down and prepares to burn it.

    Free enquiry /discussion/ so long as it is employed on our side /for our

    interest/ is a good thing – the instant it is employed against our interest it

    is a bad thing: and we will destroy it. Right becomes wrong when against us:

    wrong becomes right when for us. This is the Honourable Gentleman’s morality:

    this then his logic.

    In Morocco In Spain in England in Morocco, among the Persas in the Cortes /in

    the logic of a Persa/ in the mouth /logic/ of a Member of the Cortes in the

    logic of rulers every where but in the Anglo-American United States the

    definition of the liberty of speech is the same the distinction between liberty

    and licentiousness is the same. Liberty consists in /is exercised by/ doing

    every thing we like: licentiousness is manifested by doing any thing we /I/ do

    not like. We will tolerate every thing that is said in praise of us: we will

    punish as far as is in our power for every thing that is said in dispraise of.

    We will not only allow it; but if we think it worth the money we will pay for it

    at the public expence.

    All comes to this so long as a man does /says/ nothing but what they like he

    will be allowed to do it: as far as he does any thing do not like he will be

    punished. Such are the principles avowed and acted upon by Mr Gorelli: and such

    I grieve to say it are the principles avowed and acted upon by Count Torreno.

    Such were the principles avowed and acted upon by the Persas: such were the

    principles avowed and acted upon by the Inquisitions.These liberalists if such

    they are, can no more endure any thing should be said against them, than the

    Serviles.
  • Title: [1820 Oct. 9 Spanish liberticide measures]
    Description: 1820 Oct. 9 Spanish liberticide measures 7 7 Meeting licensing

    Rulers on the right side – by their own supposition they are so. If among men so

    general is the propensity to wrong how came they to be exempt from it?

    I feel how easy it is sitting in a chair at a thousand miles from the seat of

    abuse to preach tranquillity: […?] at the seat of provocation of […?] to preach

    forbearance.

    In telling the Minister what it is that gave birth to the secret system of

    secresy, I have already told him what it is that will put it to death: liberty –

    assurance – public assurance of the most universal and perfect liberty. Liberty

    in any numbers to meet as often as men please and to say with impunity so they

    committ no act of violence whatever they please. What treason? What,

    insurrection? Oh yes as much of that talk, and as openly and loudly talked as

    they please. The more so the more prompt and effectual the warning, and with the

    warning the facility to apply with advantage those means of repression which the

    Government unless generally which is as much as to say deservedly can not but

    have in its hands.

    {I am aware – no man can be more perfectly so how much less easy it is to seek

    advice as this than to give it. I confess that /concurr perfectly how much/

    nothing is more easy than /know/ how easy it is for a man sitting in a chair to

    preach tranquillity at a thousand miles distance from the seat of alarm, to I

    preach forbearance at a thousand miles form the seat of […?]}

    But I preach with confidence because the ground I stand upon is sure: the ground

    of experience: perfectly apposite and long continued experience: the experience

    of the same times. There and for forty years it has been standing before our

    /men’s/ eyes: we have but to turn them to it. I speak once more of the

    Anglo-American self-emancipated and ever growing and ever United States. Of the

    wisdom which I beg leave to submitt to this Minister and his superiors such is

    the source. Now, what says /is/ the evidence itself? Two things: 1. No

    restriction in any shape on meetings of Citizens for judging rulers: 2. No

    attempt /endeavour/ at secresy: How should there have been? what could have been

    the use of it.

    Even in England though on one part there is so much misrule there is no secresy.

    There is indeed Free Masonry. But Free Masonry is but a play thing a mere

    plaything – for secresy as against the ruling few it is /would be/ the very last

    place: for of them it is composed.

    Martinez, Speech in Cortes Sept. 7th is in Morn. Chron. Sept 26 1820 Traveller

    26 Sept. Secret Societies.