date

[129b-443] 16 March 1817 Plan
[129b-443]

16 March 1817

Plan Cat

2 o

Introd

§18 Defence suffrage

XIV 927 Extract[?] 926 Speech 838

{When a public abuse of any kind} When in any shape without exception a public abuse has place my notion of the matter is, that the more notorious it can be made the better because the greater the notoriety the greater if any is the chance of its being removed. “ The scandal which if not reprobated the traffic in question would “ bring upon Parliament” in this scandal and the shamelessness i.e the openness of the market it was in those accessory /collateral/ circumstances that by M r Speaker in his celebrated speech the principal part if not the whole of the evil appears to have been viewed: and that so far as concerns the share possessed by C – r General /the servants of the Crown/ in this traffic in his eyes it was not the existence of the monopoly /trusts/ in question but only the notoriety of it /it/ that in his eyes constituted /consisted/ the real evil appears but too plainly in the pains taken /but too successful labour employed/ by him in a subsequent stage of the business towards the securing to them that monopoly of it which as above was so vainly resisted by Lord Folkstone. “The great rule according to him a great rule {spick and span and made for the purpose /(a rule made it should seem for the occasion)/ was to strike at the prominent and most flagrant points of the offence: that is to say to strike at the offence in that shape and that shape only viz. in the shape of an “ express contract” that being the shape in which among /between/ persons of the class in question it was not customary nor ever could be needful that it should be committed. [+] With the whole weight of his influence – and of the additional quantity derived from the antecedent speech contended for the insertion of the word express, referring the exclusion of it to any future enactments ... which in the course of the operation of this measure might subsequently arise

[marginal heading:] the “openness of the market

[+] p.926
Similar Items
  • Title: [[129b-411] 16 Mar. 1817 Parl]
    Description: [129b-411]

    16 Mar. 1817

    Parl Cat

    2 o

    Introd

    §.{8. Freedom of Suffrage}

    10 Seat Traffic

    5

    p 1015

    Inserendum?

    {These things considered, anxious to secure themselves /itself/ against all hazards, with no less frankness than prudence, the Tories, taking the matter out of the hands of the Whigs, manufactured A o 1809 that Act /49 G.3.c./ by which the moneyed men with their money /men with money in their hands/ being with the most elaborate industry endeavoured to be drawn out of the market, the faculty and by means of that exclusion the monopoly /exclusive faculty/ was expressly reserved /reservation was made/ to the C – r General whose means of purchase are for the most part not in money but in moneys worth: expressly and by the very word express: for when as in other part of the Act proposition /the proposition/ was made to include in the description of the prohibited contract as well the case in which the agreement was implied as that in which it was express the word express was upon a division put in, and the word implied put out. So that in this particular the sense of Parliament was on that occasion not merely by implication but in express terms and by the word express declared

    That to the frankness by which this proceeding stands characterised the good quality of uniformity might be added an amendment it appears was moved by L d Folkestone to the title: an amendment in virtue of which instead of standing as at present the title would have stood thus. An Act for more effectually preventing the sale of seats for money: and for promoting a Monopoly thereof to the Treasury by the means of Patronage. [+] The improvement which would thus have been made was however rejected by a majority of 133 to 28: this being the case the design thus pursued is not to be found announced in the title of the Act, nor at any less expence than that of trailing[?] through /poring over/ the body of it: but it can not be too faithfully or carefully registered in the memory and in the hearts of the people.}

    [+] Cobbet’s Debates Jun 13 th 1809. Vol. XIV p.1015.
  • Title: [[129b-447] 16 March 1817 Plan]
    Description: [129b-447]

    16 March 1817

    Plan Cat

    2 o

    Introd

    §18. Defence

    2

    made in the only way in which by /among/ Honourable Gentlemen it is either natural or needful that they should be made, the influence of the Crown howsoever encreasing ought not at that time at any rate (June 1 and 7 1809) ought not to be diminished. that it was by the scandalousness i.e. the notoriety i.e. the exposure to restraint and not in the sufferings in any shape produced by an offence that the demand for punishment to be attached to an offence consists: and that accordingly forasmuch as when performed /consummated/ by a contract which was not an express but only an implied one no scandal is produced therefore {such being the case that contracts by which in the mode in which as on other occasions so in /on/ that of /by/ the purchase of seats the influence of the Crown is encreased} when it is in this mode that /in so far at least as/ the encrease is produced /effected/ the effects of it on the Constitution are not as the vulgar men in question might suppose of a pernicious but of a beneficial and salutary nature.

    Heartily sorry am I that it is not in my power to see the matter of influence in the same convenient and cheering point of view: on a great variety of accounts it would be convenient to me in the extreme: but alas! it is not in my power.
  • Title: [[129b-410] 17 March 1817 Plan]
    Description: [129b-410]

    17 March 1817

    Plan Cat

    2 o

    Introd

    §.80. Seat Traffic

    5

    Superseded but consultable

    {On the occasion of the seat-traffic business A o 1809 To the eyes of M r /the head/ Speaker of Honourable House the subject presented itself in a different point of view {from that which is given here}. Content[?] {was to} that those who had nothing to offer /give for a seat/ but money should not be able to purchase it in any way neither by an express contract nor by an implied one. His only anxiety was not those who had office to give should not be able to purchase it by an implied act: i.e. {the only one of the three[?] media[?] in which it is customary or necessary to do the business Lest by implication over coming the his declared reluctance “to mix in the debates”, + once and again did he stand up and insist that to the prohibition should be attached the limitation conveyed by the word express. Lest in the prohibition put by the Bill implied

    contracts should in this case be considered as included By the /these/ two short and unpremeditated speeches of the 7 th of June, an interpretation and that one unquestionable may be seen put upon the long and elaborate one of the 1 st.

    “A Bill for more effectually preventing the sale of seats for money; and for promoting a monopoly thereof to the Treasury by the means of Patronage. Such was the title moved for by Lord Folkestone Out of 161 28 voted for this amendment. Cobbets debate June 13 th 1809.}

    + Speech 1 June 1809 Cobbets Debate