date

[129b-646] 22 Feb. 1817 Collectanea
[129b-646]

22 Feb. 1817

Collectanea

From Woodfalls Debates

Fox’s Speech in favour of Gray’s Parl. Reform Topics Referred to.

Motion A o 1797.

{Fox’s speech Woodfal III 1 P 311 312. People I 1

adverse yet Election produces no change. Pitt {Waste and Corrupt […?].

accordance. Mischievous Wars still repeated.} 6. 17

{2.} p317. Democracy ought to be encreased in the II 2

Constitution. See p.331. N o 18 Democratic ascendancy 18

3. p 318 Present representation a mockery and a 3

shadow. See 322 Conclusion

Representation a Sham

{4.} p 319 Since 1784 4/5 ths of the Election Franchise I 4

of Scotland and Cornwall have (1797) passed into the Waste and Corruption}

hands of Government.

5. p.322. Immorality of the mock representative. 5

318. (N.B. Contrast the pretended purity with the Conclusion

real immorality Representative a course[?]

of immorality

{6. p.323 324. 23,000,000 annually collected making[?] {I 6

the despot of election […?] no more than 25,000,000: Waste and Corrupt.}

now /that guaranteed the/ | |000,000

7. p326. Grays Housholder admitting return the {III 7

first[?] that Fox approves. Pitt’s art[?]. Virtual universality of

suffrage. 10. 11. 12.}

8. p326 Fox against extension of County 8

representation.} County /Whigs/ representation

Fox against extending

it

9. p.327 First principles – abstraction philosophers 9

approved and disapproved. Objection decoy &c

10. p. 327. Universal suffrage approved in respect of {III 10

extent disapproved in respect of want of freedom. Virtual Universality 7. 11

So p.328.

{11. Female suffrage treated as absurd speculation. III. 11

Good reason given for it: bad against it. F.S.[?] Virtual immorality

Proposition supposed to dispose rate of property: Female 7. 10}

forgetting the lives[?] of British India.}

12. p. 328. Grays housholder plan would give III 12

600,000 Electors Grays Housholder plan

13. p. 328 329 Present[?] Exclusion extirpation IV 13

of bribery and corruption deemed impassable[?] Secrecy of suffrage.

14. p. 329. Shortening Parliaments would check V 14

bribery and corruption. Annuality

{15. p. 329 Nominated Members more obsequience {15

to their patrons than elected to their constituents Terrorism.

16. p.330. County Members terrorized by Rule[?] of 16

peers. p. 324. Parl Reg. 1793 p383 Terrorism

17. p. 330 Pitt (A o 1797) had made 115 peers I 17

including advocacy Matter of corruption

Peerage-making 1, 4, 6

18. p 331. “Man has a right to be well governed. No II 18

people can be satisfied with a government from the Democratic according[?]

constituent parts of which they are excluded. See Virtual universality. 2}

p 317}

19 p. 331 Advocates for reform, Savile and Camden. 19

Per Burke now representative of Manchester a[?] Whigs – Reformist

“shameful parts of the constitution”. Camden – Savile – Burke

20 220. p. 332. After 2 seeing the conduct of the VI 20

House &, I think I may devote more time to private Attendance

pursuits etc. I 1 do not feel it consistent with my duty

whether to secede &c.

21 p 333. From accession 1760 to 1797, but three 21

Whig (or […?]) administrations, viz Months 12 Whigs – their chance of

9 power

3

24 = years two.

Such is the power of the Crown.
Similar Items
  • Title: [[129b-645] 26 Jan[?] 1819[?]]
    Description: [129b-645]

    26 Jan[?] 1819[?]

    19 Feb

    Parl Reform Cat

    Collectanea

    Intro

    {Contents and Ordo

    1. Contempt of Judges & other Lawyers for Parl t. exemplification already noticed

    1. Mass[?] & Co s contempt

    2. Double for contempt

    2

    3. Add here to prove the universality and of participation and the pertinacity

    3[?]. Non-discharge contempt

    3

    Sole remedy. Committee on the state of Justice.

    4

    First object of the Committee, cases in which misconception was impossible

    5

    J.B.s able to indicate several such cases

    5

    * Invitation for others

    6

    Facienda for Committee

    1. To Report[?] to House and House to punish the offending Solicitors if alive. Qu. as to […?] before Judges

    7

    House after hearing Judges to come to Resolutions of Penance and to send them to Lords for […?] […?]}

    Chron. 22 Feb y 1817

    Shoreditch Petition[?] […?] Returned by 89 Peers in England and Wales 218

    By 21 Peers in Scotland 31

    By 36 Peers in Ireland 51

    300

    By 90 Commoners in England and Wales 137

    By 14 Commoners in Scot. 14

    By 19 Do. in Ireland 20

    Nominated by Government 16

    Total returned by Nominat n 487

    Independent of d o

    171

    Total of House of Commons 658

    §.5. Remedy in detail[?]:

    1 Immediate[?] causes of mischief sinister interest

    2 Causes of d o

    1. Undue independence

    2. Undue dependence Pag 1

    Situations to be considered

    1. Electors

    2. Representatives 2

    Remedies: as to

    I. Electors

    1. Comprehensive of all interests – therein

    2 or 1 Virtual universality of suffrage

    3. or 2. Practicable equality of suffrage p.3

    4. or 3. Freedom i.e. genuineness or non-spuriousness of suffrage

    5. or 4 Secresy of suffrage p.10

    II. Representatives Ultimate[?] securities[?]

    1. Dependence as to Constituents i.e. Electors.

    2. Independence as to Corrupter General Intermediate is instrumental to securities

    3. Impermanence of the situation: viz. by annuality of re-election

    4 Exclusion of Placemen

    5. Universal constancy of attendance.

    4

    I Encreasing County Seats

    simple

    1. Pitt the first A o 1770

    Meadly p.2

    2. Wilkes A o 1776 p3

    3. Pitt 2 d A o 1783 p.6

    4. Flood A o 1790 p9.

    5. Grey A o 1797 p12

    6. Brand A o 1810 p.15

    7. Brand A o 1812 p.16

    II. Striking[?] off[?] or District[?] Boroughs proved rotten

    7

    1. Pitt 2 d A o 1783 p6.

    2 Grey A o 1800 p13

    3. Brand A o 1810 p.15

    4. Brand A o 1812 p.16

    III L d o by purchase

    Pitt 2 d A o 1785 p.8

    6

    IV. Giving seats to populous terms

    1. Pitt 2 d A o 1785 p8

    2 Gray A o 1797 p12

    3. Gray A o 1800 p.13

    4. Brand A o 1810 p.15

    V Substituting triennuality

    Whig

    1. Friends of the People A o 1793 p.10

    2. Grey A o 1797. p.12

    3. Brand A o 1810 p.16.

    5

    V. Dividing Counties into Electoral Districts

    1. Grey A o 1797 p.12

    1

    VI Admitting Copyholders

    1 Grey. A o 1797 p.12

    2. Brand. 1810 p.15

    3. Brand A o 1812 p.16

    2

    VII Admitting Leaseholders

    1. Grey A o 1797 p12

    3

    VIII Admitting all Leaseholders to vote for Brougham

    1. Grey A o 1797 p.12

    10

    IX. No man to vote for more than one Member.

    1. Grey A o1797. p.12

    N o of occasions on which propositions were made 15

    Among what N o on which nothing specific was proposed 3

    Remain occasions on which d o was d o 12

    Deduct Radical 2

    Remain moderate 10

    1. Giving extension to the Election Franchise

    1. In the case of County Seats admitting Copyholders

    2. In d o admitting Leaseholders

    3. In the case of now or future? Borough Seats admitting Householders

    II. Giving encrease to the number of non-Venal seats

    4 or 1. County Seats

    5 or 2. County distant Seats

    6. or 3. Popular Borough Seats

    III. Excluding venal seats

    7 or 4 without compensation

    8. or 5. with compensation

    IV. Excluding some of the sold Members

    9. or 6.

    V. Diminishing expence XI

    10 or 7. 11 or 8.

    9

    X Polling every where in one day.

    1. Grey A o 1797. p.12

    12

    XI. Assimilating Scotch system of representation to England

    1. Brand A o 1810 p.15

    11

    XII. Excluding from seats persons holding offices without responsibility.

    1. Brand A o 1810 p.15
  • Title: [[129b-424] 17 April 1817 Plan]
    Description: [129b-424]

    17 April 1817

    Plan Cat

    4 o Note (b)

    Introd

    § 16 Moderate Reform

    II Uselessness

    I. Electors

    18

    1

    to painters[?] of samples[?] of interest of man to d o of sto[?]

    In[?] her interest is waste, corruption and oppression

    In […?] the expence of which waste is fostered

    {Make[?] out while[?] here what can by distant no time[?] except local […?]}

    Note (b)

    (b) On the subject of virtual universality and practical equality of suffrage taken together, to repel the more effectually the imputation contained in the epithets theoretical, speculative, and the like, one observation which might perhaps with more advantage its been stationed in/at/ an anterior part of this enquiry remains to be made.

    Maximization of the regard paid to the universal interest on the occasion of its competition with the several pocket and thence sinister particular interests included in it – and to that end in the next place to the first place, say Community, say coincidence say identity of interests as between subject many on the one part and ruling few on the other part being ends /so many objects/ of a superior order with reference to any despotism that can be made of the right of suffrage, a position that follows from this admission is that of /in so far/ those uses alone are considered which in contradistinction to the collateral uses have above been distinguished by the appellation of main or direct uses, defalcations and no inconsiderable extent might without sensible inconvenience be made from the extent respectively given to the application of these principles.

    From the scheme of representation leave or strike out for example this or that article /so many articles/ in the list of counties: in this or that county leave or strike out this or that /so many/ article in the list of hundreds: in the list of towns strike out so many even though they were of the number of those that stand distinguished by their populousness.

    Proportioned
  • Title: [[129b-484] 21 Feb. 1817 C Plan]
    Description: [129b-484]

    21 Feb. 1817 C

    Plan Cat

    2 o

    Introd

    § Interests adverse

    III. Course taken

    19

    5

    III Woodfull – Fox p. 317

    In the state of interests may be found /behold/ the only clue /explanation/ to a phaenomenon which otherwise might remain inexplicable. Look to the tories look to the Whigs terrorism was to both a sheet anchor: to secrecy of suffrage the only remedy against it but that a most incontestably effectual one they had /felt/ a sort of instant aversion /horror/: finding it forced upon his attention from somebody without /persons without, persons whose goodwill /with whom/ he saw a necessity of endeavouring to keep on terms of concord/ the Duke of Richmond found it […?]able to forbear the mention of it. /impracticable to pass this proposed arrangement altogether without notice./ Well – mention it /take it hand/ he does, but exactly as a man would handle /take in hand/ a burning coal just shot out of the fire /a man takes it in hand to save the carpet from the blaze/: away with it he can not bear the truth of it. Something in the guise of a reason he was forced to give – but how irrelevant how weak an one: out of the mouth of weak man a weaker surely must come. The Duke of Richmond throws it down and sets his feet upon it. Charles Fox shuts his eyes against it. What? is it for a moment to be believed that to the hand of Charles Fox to such a mind as Charles Fox’s it could ever have been absent? To Charles Fox, cousin[?] to and familiar with the Duke of Richmond the plan of the Duke of Richmond with the notice[?] taken by him in it of secrecy of suffrage and the negative put upon it the irrational the groundless and almost pretenceless negative

    To the author of the rejected East India Bill could it have been out of mind that there was such a house as the East India House? could it have been out of mind – the mode in which in assemblies of Proprietors the votes are collected in that House? that that mode was Ballot, and that by that mode the professedly intended secresy was actually and constantly accomplished? that secresy, and thence that freedom of suffrage in the supposed impracticableness of which he found the only argum consideration which prevented his acceding to the principle of universal suffrage?